Robert Pattinson in ‘The Penguin’? Showrunner Talked About It

Lauren LeFranc knows she broke your heart with that shocking death in the finale of HBO’s The Penguin — but that wasn’t the point. What she does not know (any more than you do) is whether her Emmy-nominated series (24 noms!) will have a second season.

Either way, LeFranc can’t return to Gotham City until after Robert Pattinson puts the cowl back on for Matt Reeves’ The Batman Part II. In case you haven’t heard, there’s a whole DC Universe plan in place now.

The showrunner and executive producer talks to THR about how long voters and fans will have to wait for a potential season two and doing a Batman show without Batman.

I know The Penguin premiered in September, but it feels like it’s been years.

I know, it is strange. It’s funny, because I do feel like it also took a really long time to shoot. With the strike shutdown, we had started in the winter, and then by the time we came back, we went into winter again. So, we had two winters of shooting The Penguin, so time does slow in that way. But honestly, I know how rare it is to be recognized in this way, so it’s actually really lovely to see so many people in our cast and crew be recognized in the story. That’s truly the most fulfilling thing. So even if it comes almost a year since we premiered, it really has been a pleasure.

What’s the status of a season two?

I don’t know. There’s no current status update. I think Matt just turned in his script (for The Batman Part II), so I’m excited to read that soon and see what comes of that — if there is anything there that merits a second season [of The Penguin] or not. I think we’ve said this before, but I truly mean it: We have to feel confident we can top ourselves, and that’s something that’s really important to Colin Farrell and me, especially; otherwise, we don’t want to do something again if it’s not going to be excellent. We were always meant to be a limited series. So, pivoting to a second season is just different — it’s not something we ever really talked about.

And you couldn’t return before The Batman Part II anyway, which has been delayed to 2027.

Right. The intention of our first season always was, we’re launching Oz into the second film, and so we couldn’t air a second season until after Matt’s movie comes out.

You’re not involved in the films — does it feel in any way “less than” that a major reason for your show’s existence is in service to the films?

It’s interesting you say that. I know I technically am the bridge, but I don’t — that’s not how I view it or how I feel or think of it in terms of our show, really at all. For me, it’s like I’m in the same Gotham City universe that Matt established in the film. I’m showing you different sides of it, I’m showing you different characters and looking at Gotham as a city also through a different lens. Our show is very cinematic, and it’s a different form of storytelling. Television is longform storytelling, so that affords us more time. We made eight big episodes, and we got to spend a lot more time with our characters and really dig into who they are and what they’re afraid of. We get to unravel them slowly, and we allow for different reveals and moments where you get to deepen your understanding of these characters, and that’s really hard to do in a couple hours in a film. But it’s extraordinary what Matt did in the first film, and I’m sure the second film will be that as well. They’re just different mediums, so that’s how I look at it. But I don’t feel “less than” being a TV show.

Was Robert Pattinson ever close to appearing on The Penguin season one?

Matt and I talked about it a lot. It just didn’t feel necessary. It felt like we’d be wrenching him in just to say we had The Batman in our show, when in reality, I feel like my goal at least was always to create rich enough, compelling characters that you weren’t desperate to see him, which I know is a tall order because so many people love Batman, and Rob Pattinson is so good as Batman. But, yes, we were doing something a little different. We’re through the lens of Oz. We’re on the streets. There’s a gang war happening. We always would say, “Batman’s up high looking down on Gotham, and Oz is in the muck, wanting to get up there and to achieve a level of power.” So, yes, we talked about it, but honestly, we just didn’t want to interfere with the story that we had.

Would he appear in season two if we get one?

I mean, there’s not even a season two right now. So I can’t say anything about that.

At the end of The Penguin, Sofia Falcone (Cristin Milioti) receives a letter from Selina Kyle, who we know is Catwoman (played by Zoë Kravitz in the movie). If there’s a second season, is the letter signaling that Catwoman will be in it?

From my perspective, it’s about Sofia’s emotional arc as a character, that the whole season is about the fact that her family has betrayed her. She’s trying to reach out. She’s trying to figure herself out in this family, and she ultimately realizes she’s very alone. And, obviously, she then dramatically murders most of them, but she has this tension and this pain mixed up in her. And she goes to see Gia, her little cousin, in this children’s home that is very reminiscent of Arkham Asylum in a lot of ways. And she leaves her there because that’s what Sofia would do. So you understand that her as a character, she has a lot of complex feelings regarding family, and any sort of maternal or not-maternal feelings she has. So, by the end — when Oz quote-unquote wins and he sentences her to a deeper form of hell than death by bringing her back to Arkham — she’s all alone now, and she’s lost, and it’s heartbreaking, and it felt really important to me to give her a semblance of hope.

Selina Kyle’s letter to her is saying — what the audience who’s seen The Batman already would know — is they’re half-sisters. That was established in Matt’s movie that Selina Kyle is Carmine Falcone’s illegitimate daughter, right? And we know Sofia is Carmine’s daughter as well, and so it’s more of a “maybe you have family here, maybe there’s a little bit of hope for you yet” for this show. That is what the intention of that letter is.

I remember all throughout Fox’s Gotham run the recurring question was, “How could you have a Batman show without Batman?” But I think The Penguin is exactly how you could have a quote-unquote Batman show without Batman.

Thank you for saying that. We knew we were not going to be a show where we’re throwing in the kitchen sink. It’s not necessary. Obviously, we’re set in Gotham City, but but we really consider ourselves a crime drama at heart, and it’s a character drama. And so, when you break things from the place of character and who they are psychologically and what they’re striving for, you’re not thinking inherently as much about like, “Who can we throw in here? Who could we get to just do this bit or that bit?” It’s more about, “Who are these people? What do they want? How do they interact with each other? How can we keep surprising the audience?” We’re focused more on just the dramatic storytelling and digging deeper into characters.

Was there a version of The Penguin in which you didn’t kill Vic (Rhenzy Feliz)?

No. Before I had a writers room, I broke out every character’s backstory and their entire emotional arc. So, part of my pitch to HBO always was, “Victor dies in the end by Oz’s hand. It’s slow and intimate and painful.” That was always the intention.

This story first appeared in an August stand-alone issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine, click here to subscribe.